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Holodomor denial is the new Holocaust denial; maybe the West shoulda just stayed out of it

01 Dec

Interesting development, that suddenly, the Canadian government, including its propaganda arm the CBC, are focusing on the Holodomor holocaust now; viz.:

http://archive.is/b5ICE

http://archive.is/WmHdI

Doubtless this is due to the influence of our deputy PM on our PM…

Trudeau’s statement, linked above, prompted some interesting observations by Brett Stevens (hat tip):

People blame the Jews for the over-emphasis on The Holocaust™ in Western propaganda, but in reality, the Left could care less about the Jews and is simply covering for its own furthest extremity, the Soviet Union, which like Cambodia, China, Cuba, Vietnam, Venezuela, and even revolutionary France distinguished itself by a pursuit of atrocities in order to weed out those whose support of the Party was insufficiently enthusiastic. If we speak purely of genocides, the Holodomor ranks up there in that it came dangerously close to being successful and killed more people than even the highest estimates of the Holocaust.™ If we add in the total loss of life from Communism, we see that the Nazis were merely a response to the horrors of Communism, and it makes us ashamed for how we allied with a bigger evil merely to defeat an anti-democratic force that could otherwise have been handled. A sensible president might have instead of provoking the Japanese, kept diplomatic relations with Germany and negotiated an end to the war with Britain, providing for relocation of European Jews to “Palestine” since it was obvious that one way or another, Hitler was going to do something awful to them.

According to the CBC story I linked, the Holodomor is believed to have resulted in the death of 8 million Ukrainians; the Wikipedia entry I linked says “According to the findings of the Court of Appeal of Kiev in 2010, the demographic losses due to the famine amounted to 10 million, with 3.9 million direct famine deaths, and a further 6.1 million birth deficits.”

This puts it higher than the official estimate of the total killed in the Holocaust, at 6 million.

Yet we saw fit to ally with Stalin against Hitler, when he was the bigger butcher.

Frankly, I fail to see how not allying with either genocidal tyrant and ignoring Hitler’s invasion of Poland as we did his earlier invasion of Czechoslovakia would have been a morally less defensible course of action than what we actually did, not to mention the strategic value to Britain and the Western European nations and the rest of the world for that matter of just letting the two tyrants exhaust themselves over Eastern Europe with each other, rather than getting involved.

And I don’t know how anyone can try to make a moral case that Hitler was uniquely evil because of his genocidal atrocities and that therefore we had a moral imperative to wage war on the Nazis, when those we allied with, the Soviets under Stalin, were even worsely genocidal in terms of sheer numbers. Since both sides – the Soviets and the Nazis – had massive blood on their hands, I fail to see why we ought to have sided with one against the other, rather than siding with neither. (If, as Otto von Bismarck famously argued, “The whole of the Balkans is not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier.”, then maybe the whole of eastern Europe also wasn’t worth the bones of a single Canadian / British / American / Australian / etc., soldier, either…)

I would of course love to see a dispassionate, rational and moral argument against my position, assuming anyone can articulate one. I expect instead knee-jerk emotional reactions, sputtering indignation, “Nazis uniquely bad!” even though the Soviets actually killed more… Go ahead; prove me wrong if you can. 😉

 
16 Comments

Posted by on December 1, 2019 in Canada, government, The Kulturkampf

 

16 responses to “Holodomor denial is the new Holocaust denial; maybe the West shoulda just stayed out of it

  1. bluecat57

    December 1, 2019 at 7:29 pm

    This is why Ukraine is “Russian”. Ethnic Russians replaced the dead Ukrainians.

     
  2. bluecat57

    December 1, 2019 at 7:35 pm

    That was only Stalin’s warm-up. One death is a tragedy. A million just a statistic. I think Stalin said that. I wish I could provide an argument, but no one can. We need to move forward and make sure we don’t repeat the same errors in moral and ethical practice. Alas, we already have. Rwanda, Southeast Asia, the Middle East, China, and soon Hong Kong and Iran.

     
  3. bluecat57

    December 1, 2019 at 7:45 pm

    Remember to that war casualties are usually just the soldiers killed. Numbers wounded aren’t readily reported. Civilian dead less so. And civilians wounded, good luck finding believable numbers.

     
  4. Yves Vannes

    December 1, 2019 at 9:20 pm

    “Yet we saw fit to ally with Stalin against Hitler, when he was the bigger butcher”

    Even if the Holocaust is not the Holohoax, nothing had happened yet. Hitler had only defended German minorities on the Eastern Front when we committed ourselves with Lend-Lease.

     
    • Will S.

      December 2, 2019 at 12:04 am

      Whereas the West knew about atrocities by Stalin in the Ukraine, but simply chose to ignore them, to stay out.

       
  5. realgaryseven

    December 1, 2019 at 9:39 pm

    “And I don’t know how anyone can try to make a moral case that Hitler was uniquely evil because of his genocidal atrocities and that therefore we had a moral imperative to wage war on the Nazis, when those we allied with, the Soviets under Stalin, were even worsely genocidal in terms of sheer numbers.”

    No such moral case can be made. In 1939, people knew about the atrocities that had already taken place in the Soviet Union in the 1920s and 1930s. No one yet knew about the (lesser) atrocities that would be perpetrated in the future by the Nazis.

    One cannot judge 1939 by 1945, yet doing so is a predicate of the notion that WW2 was somehow “good.”

     
  6. David

    December 2, 2019 at 7:10 am

    “I fail to see how not allying with either genocidal tyrant and ignoring Hitler’s invasion of Poland as we did his earlier invasion of Czechoslovakia would have been a morally less defensible course of action than what we actually did”

    You can speculate about contrafactual history as much as you want, but Hitler’s declaration of war against the US on 12/11/41 made it impossible for us to ignore his behavior, and moots this point.

     
    • Will S.

      December 2, 2019 at 8:36 am

      I’m Canadian, and for us and the rest of the world, World War II started September 1, 1939 with Hitler’s invasion of Poland, when Britain, France, Canada etc. went to war against Germany (Canada waited a week for symbolic reasons but then joined Britain.). I’m saying perhaps we should have followed America’s example and stayed out, unless and until he turned and attacked the West.

      And who knows; had we done so, the war might have gone sufficiently differently than it did so as to change the conditions that necessitated America’s entry later; while I don’t think we can know for sure whether or not they would have still eventually declared war on America or turned westward to France, etc., I think that there’s at least a possibility that they could have gotten bogged down in Russia and Eastern Europe and thus not bothered.

      Then instead of a World War II, there could have just been an Eastern European, German-Soviet war.

      I know your history books all taught you that WWII began December 7, 1941 with Japan’s bombing of Pearl Harbour, but the rest of the world had been fighting for two years already; my argument is we should have stayed out rather than going to war, just as you Americans did for the first two years, at least so long as Germany focused its war eastward. Then there may never have ended up being a World War II, per se.

       
  7. Gerry T. Neal

    December 10, 2019 at 12:34 am

    I couldn’t agree more with what Mr. Stevens wrote with regards to the Left’s motives for over-emphasis on the Holocaust. It was right around the time the Second World War ended that the term “genocide” was coined by a leftist intellectual. It was coined to meet a need in left-wing propaganda. At the beginning of WWII, when the Soviets and the Nazis were allies of a sort, the left opposed the war. They became enthusiastic for the war, and for the anti-Nazi cause, only when Hitler broke with the Soviet Union and invaded them in Operation Barbarossa. The Left were hugely in favour of the Faustian compact that the British Commonwealth, USA, and France were forced to make with the Stalin. A comparison of Stalin and Hitler as to which of the mass-murdering despots was worse, if based solely on the extent of their crimes, would unquestionably show Stalin to have been the worse of the two. In other words, we sided with the greater of two evils, to destroy the lesser. We then put the subordinates of the lesser tyrant on trial for his crimes. Thus the coining of “genocide”, by which a mass-murder that is lesser in terms of number of victims is made to be greater by consideration of motivation, it being declared “worse” to kill a small number of people because of their ethnicity, than to kill a larger number of people because they are standing in the way of creating your workers’ paradise. Since the ethnic group targeted by Hitler, is one that has historically been inclined to support the Left politically in countries where it is not the majority, i.e., until 1948, all countries and that had been fixated on its own victimhood since long before the rise of Hitler, the Left knew that it could count on them to enthusiastically support them in this. Ironically, Stalin himself turned on the Jews shortly after the end of the war. Jonathan Brent and Vladimir Naubov in their book, Stalin’s Last Crime: The Plot Against the Jewish Doctors, 1948-1953, only really touch the tip of the iceberg on this. It is doubly ironic, that progressive outrage against any and all efforts to sift the truth from Soviet deception in the standard account of the Holocaust, and, to a lesser degree, against any examination of such matters as forced population relocation by the Soviets in Germany and Eastern Europe at the end and immediate aftermath of the War, with the greatest degree of outrage expressed by Jewish progressives, has been a hindrance to finding the full details of the Soviet Union’s anti-Semitic activities in Stalin’s last days.

     
    • Will S.

      December 10, 2019 at 12:47 am

      Interesting.

       

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