No true Catholic (and no, that’s not the No True Scotsman fallacy), for sure

19 Jun
Considered as a Christian tradition, absolutely. (Considered as a tribal affiliation, a bit more muddy…)

No religiously observant, practising, faithful Catholic can be pro-abortion.


21 responses to “No true Catholic (and no, that’s not the No True Scotsman fallacy), for sure

  1. Will S.

    June 19, 2021 at 2:11 am

    What do I mean by ‘tribal affiliation’?

    I mean ‘ethnic Catholics’ like Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans (who might say, “Oh, I’m Irish / Italian / Polish, so I’m Catholic”, even if they never go to Mass, Confession, and eat red meat on Fridays, and are thoroughly worldly in their values, contra church doctrine in many ways, e.g. pro-abortion, promiscuous, divorced, pro-gay-rights, etc.

    I also mean mutts like Joe Biden (Irish, English, French ancestry) for whom the Catholicism itself forms a kind of ethnic tribe. Biden married two men to each other as vice president – that’s not something a real Catholic would do, but a tribal one with no moral compass, like Biden, would totally do.

    • c matt

      June 21, 2021 at 3:14 pm

      I get what you mean, but in a technical sense they are not Catholic. Catholic is not an ethnic identity, so while you may not be able to lose your Scots, Irish, Norwegian or Italian ethnicity, you can certainly lose your Catholicism. One way to do that is to no longer profess and believe what the RCC teaches you must profess and believe. It is like saying you are an ethnic Aristotelian.

      • Will S.

        June 21, 2021 at 3:20 pm

        I agree with you, but unfortunately, people like Joe Biden and Justin Trudeau do not.

      • Will S.

        June 21, 2021 at 3:25 pm

        Think of Frances Kissling, and the like.

        Continuing to think of themselves as Catholic, even though truly they have no right to self-identify thus.

        Therefore, for them, it’s some sort of tribal affiliation, like Jews who consider themselves Jewish but never attend synagogue, keep kosher, circumcise their sons, etc.

  2. info

    June 19, 2021 at 3:06 am

    Goes to show it’s why it’s a serious error to lump all Protestants like E Michael Jones does into the same basket. Many claim orthodoxy but in reality isn’t so.

  3. fuzziewuzziebear

    June 19, 2021 at 3:32 am

    In case they are ever needed, true Scotsmen. 🙂

    About the Irish, last summer, abortion was put on the ballot and women came from all over the world to vote in person. It passed there. In Poland, the opposite happened. I think Poland may be more Catholic.

    • Will S.

      June 19, 2021 at 8:54 am


      Yes, Poland is far more observant than Ireland; in fact, a number of priests in Ireland are from Poland, these days; not enough locals entering seminaries there, any more, to meet their needs.

  4. freemattpodcast

    June 19, 2021 at 10:13 am

    The “church” could go back to excommunicating people. Thin the ranks and enforce some boundaries

    • feeriker

      June 19, 2021 at 10:57 am

      That would be a financial blow to them, which is why they don’t do it with any regularity anymore. It’s also why most Protestant churches don’t impose any church discipline, either. It’s all about business now.

      • c matt

        June 21, 2021 at 3:19 pm

        Partly. And while the more orthodox of the groups were too nice to make the hard decisions, the heterodox gained power and purged liked Stalin. Compare a Benedict XVI with Bergoglio. The former will write a 500 page dissertation on why you should not follow the path you are taking; the latter will simply shut down your order or group, or replace its leadership with his toadies.

    • Will S.

      June 19, 2021 at 10:25 pm


  5. feeriker

    June 19, 2021 at 10:53 am

    “No religiously observant, practising, faithful Christian can be pro-abortion.”


  6. fuzziewuzziebear

    June 19, 2021 at 10:28 pm

    This thread has gone quiet. The people lost their bid to outlaw Covid jails in Canadian courts Friday. This is an after action report. It sounds like the defenders of the government are arguing for the sake of it and just throwing excuses at the court.

    I wish that I had better news, but they do intend to appeal.

    • Will S.

      June 19, 2021 at 10:30 pm


      • fuzziewuzziebear

        June 19, 2021 at 11:52 pm

        You have been quiet and so has the news. Are they saving it up for something big? I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.

      • Will S.

        June 19, 2021 at 11:59 pm

        Sorry, fuzzy; real life has intervened. 😉

        I dunno.

      • fuzziewuzziebear

        June 20, 2021 at 4:42 am

        That is good news.
        Still waiting for the other shoe to drop.

  7. zerothposition

    June 20, 2021 at 10:34 am

    The words “heresy” and “heretic” are too little used.


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