The Daily Beast Rightly Skewers R.C. Sproul’s “Persecution Cruise”

08 Dec

Rightly, indeed. Most dismaying… Horrible ‘optics’


18 responses to “The Daily Beast Rightly Skewers R.C. Sproul’s “Persecution Cruise”

  1. Eric

    December 8, 2014 at 12:38 am

    There wasn’t any ISIS and Christians enjoyed protection in places like Syria, Iraq, Egypt, and Libya until the progs decided ‘regime change’ was necessary. I think they employ these extremists to commit ethnic cleansing for them.

  2. Will S.

    December 8, 2014 at 12:41 am

    That wouldn’t surprise me.

  3. fnn

    December 8, 2014 at 7:33 am

    I can still don’t understand what the Libyan adventure was all about.

  4. Will S.

    December 8, 2014 at 9:39 am

    Me neither.

    I’m going to turn this thread back to discussion of the cruise, and what it means.

  5. Will S.

    December 8, 2014 at 9:40 am


    “@ infowarrior1: I’m not so happy about R.C. Sproul after reading this”

    I’m afraid the Christian ‘prayer cruise’ business has been thriving for many years. These are Laodiceans, masquerading as Christians. The cruise-business in general is built upon pampering already-pampered women, principally Americans. Back when I could still stand ‘Christian radio’ these so-called pastors would advertise such things, as well as upscale trips to the Holy Land, to ‘walk where Jesus walked’. Talk about not getting it.

    It’s nothing to do with Jesus obviously. He didn’t start Revelation by calling out the pagans and secularists, how horrible they were etc. He started the Book by calling out supposed groups and individuals who were USING HIS NAME (Christ-ian) to promote personal agendas, facilitate financial schemes, live luxuriously . . . so forth. So having specifically warned, we can predict his reaction concerning disobedience in this particular area.

    These folks would be better off hawking Buddhism or something. At least it’d limit the damage.


  6. Will S.

    December 8, 2014 at 9:52 am

    I agree. I remember being appalled when Sovereign Grace Singles, the Reformed singles’ (i.e. dating / courtship) site I used to belong to, started having these damned cruises. I thought, who the hell has money to spend on such things? And if you’re single, but planning to get married, wouldn’t you be better off saving money towards a house, etc.?

    I also have an issue with these ‘missions trips’ that invariably end up going to tropical, nice climate Third World countries. Sure, people build schools or churches, perhaps accomplish some good, but couldn’t they just as easily, for a lot less money, visit their own inner cities and do mission work there? (A church I used to attend helped out at a soup kitchen in the inner city in Albany, NY; they also helped a single mother move into her new home, since she couldn’t afford a moving company, apparently – I now wonder about that, given how much gov’t assistance single moms can get these days, but at least their hearts were in the right place – to me, such things are more worthwhile, even if less ‘glamourous’, and not allowing one to put up selfies on social media sites, “I’m in Mexico; here I am digging a ditch; man is hot outside!”)

    One of the few good things about mainline Protestant churches like the one I grew up in, is their critique of ‘materialism’, not materialism as in secularism, rejecting the supernatural, but their critique of the West’s culture of consumption, acquisition of material goods as the end-all, be-all in life. Not that they were immune to the ‘feel good while getting to experience some exotic culture far away in a warm climate’ sorts of missions trips, but at least some elements of such communities did ‘get it’ in some regards, and they did do work in missions in inner cities here, etc.

    And it is because of my upbringing within such a community, IMO, that I am able to see the problem with these sorts of cruises, and self-serving ‘missions trips’…

  7. Mark Citadel

    December 8, 2014 at 11:14 am

    I will agree these are horrible optics and I do not doubt this is another charlatan looking to make a quick buck.

    However, pointing out creeping persecution of believers in the West does nothing to diminish the extreme breadth of the Holocaust occurring in the Middle East. After all, every form of persecution in history always starts with the little things. The Nazis did not round Jews up into gas chambers on day 1, and Middle Eastern Christians have seen the persecution they suffer vary across time and geography in that region. Persecution of course has degrees of severity however this does not limit persecution to only cover beheadings and mass rape. Persecution can definitely come in the form of any of these following things we see in the United States and Europe today.

    1 – The exile of Christians from owning businesses by forcing them to affirm things that are morally reprehensible or lose their right to operate in the public square. We see this in the United States with wedding caterers who have not only been driven from their businesses, but also fined excessive amounts for their ‘insolence’.

    2 – State sponsored seizure of children from Christian parents who do not wish to subject them to secular schooling. Just recently, a German family had to flee their home country because the authorities were planning to rob them of their own flesh and blood.

    3 – Excluding Christians from basic cultural institutions such as adoption due to their beliefs, as in the UK.

    4 – State sponsored media attacks and vicious caricatures of the faithful designed to stoke resentment and hatred in ways not dissimilar from cartoons in the 1930s. An extensive amount of this is done in European countries where the news is state owned and operated, and undoubtedly contributes to faith-based employment terminations and animosity.

    5 – Rallies such as those recently seen outside a Cathedral in Buenos Aires, where the faithful were abused by a mob of leftist and feminazi agitators who physically assaulted all of those present.

    Noticing these things now and taking them very seriously is important precisely because of what is going on in the Middle East, because nobody in his right mind would want that to be where we end up. I do not see one iota of difference in terms of heart and soul between the butchers of ISIS and many hardcore leftists in the West. Only a difference in opportunity and means, not in motivation and hatred.

    But I am sick of this pity party, crying ‘woe is me’. These things do not upset me, they enrage me. They make this entire struggle and fight necessary and breed a contempt for Modernity that burns with an intense heat. Instead of going on pity cruises (even if well-intentioned which I highly doubt) why not spend money DOING SOMETHING. Why not aid in fighting back against these dominant forces in the countries where they are increasingly weak?
    Most are in no position to aid our brothers and sisters in Iraq and Syria. We can pray for them, but beyond that we are not capable of much. However, in the West, it is clear that a ‘soft tyranny’ is coming to pass, and this must be resisted with every force and belligerence necessary to save future generations from the vile nature of the present governing elite.

  8. Will S.

    December 8, 2014 at 11:47 am

    Well said, Mark. I agree. Actions, rather than mere words, would be far better, because actions can accomplish things; mere words rarely do.

  9. infowarrior1

    December 8, 2014 at 7:21 pm

    @Mark @Will S.

    A+. It goes to show just how unmanly Western Christianity is. Even as we bleed we should serve the lord until the day we die. Fighting until there is no more life in ourselves.

  10. Mark Citadel

    December 8, 2014 at 8:20 pm

    infowarrior: this is precisely why Christianity needs a new rebirth to cast off the ashes heaped upon it by Modern obfuscations. It must embrace its noble history in which the Christian peoples of Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa, embodied a highly masculine strain of the religion, steeped in patriarchy and nationalism as well as fervency. At this point, we will be ready for the fight against this satanic era, and will finish the work our ancestors started.

  11. infowarrior1

    December 8, 2014 at 10:09 pm

    @Mark Citadel

    ”the Middle East, and North Africa, embodied a highly masculine strain of the religion, steeped in patriarchy and nationalism as well as fervency.”

    I was wondering. If they are so masculine how were they able to be overcome by the Islamic hordes when they surged out of Arabia?

    Only when Europe was confronted and Charles Martel saved the day did the tide turn. Christians as far as swords and hand-to-hand combat was concerned just doesn’t seem militarily as powerful as Islam. And North Africa and the Levant was lost.

  12. infowarrior1

    December 8, 2014 at 10:23 pm

    @Mark Citadel

    You are free to disregard my comments. I did not think them properly through.

  13. infowarrior1

    December 8, 2014 at 10:24 pm

    @Mark Citadel

    Previous comment*

  14. ray

    December 9, 2014 at 4:47 am

    Yeah I’ve picked up that vibe about lots of the ‘mission’ stuff also. It’s especially unfortunate given the real risks taken by other Christians in hostile nations.

    Each town I pass thru in the U.S. has a supply of homeless men. But I guess they aren’t sufficiently sexy and exotic for the attentions of some ‘missionaries’. It’s like they’re on some extended Social Outing or something.

    Also I don’t like sending kids, twenty-somethings, to foreign lands to teach about Scripture and Christ. They should be learning themselves at that age, not pontificating to The Heathen. Cheers.

  15. Will S.

    December 9, 2014 at 8:16 am

    Exactly; unfortunately, most twenty-somethings are not sufficiently spiritually mature, well-versed in apologetics, knowledge of Scripture, to be able to teach much; certainly, they can serve, and do manual labour. But to be able to give a reason for the hope that is within them? Most wouldn’t have a clue.

  16. Mark Citadel

    December 10, 2014 at 11:01 am

    @infowarrior – no, it’s a fair question, but the answer is relatively simple and that is the simple maxim of ‘nobody wins all the time’. In the Traditional World, many highly masculine cultures did battle and one inevitably lost, sometimes being erased from the earth altogether. This can be down to a multitude of factors including internal political strife, natural conditions or disasters, military tactics, or plain bad luck.

    Take the Jews for example, Hebrew culture was highly masculine in Ancient times. Men were highly venerated in society and in the household, and there was a culture of hero worship looking to the great conquerors who had overcome Israel’s adversaries. However, this did not prevent Israel from being decimated… twice. In these cases, I would add the causal factor of Divine Wrath to the mix, as they got what they deserved for disobedience to God.

    Islam was also a highly masculine culture, and in many places it remains that way today. They have had a very successful military history but they too have been defeated, for instance when the Ottoman Empire collapsed and pretty much every Muslim land was carved up and dominated by European powers.


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