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Is Homosexuality a Sin? Tim Keller, John Piper, and Joel Osteen Give an Answer

19 Aug

I couldn’t be arsed to watch more than a minute and three quarters or so of any of them.

They’re all weasels, all weak, all trying to get around categorically, unequivocally, outright condemning such behaviour as sinful and grossly wrong as we ought to do, before God and in the presence of a watching world; but normally I’d expect better from ostensibly Reformed / quasi-Reformed brethren than from a mushy churchian, evanjellyfish type like Osteen.

Disappointing, to say the least.

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23 responses to “Is Homosexuality a Sin? Tim Keller, John Piper, and Joel Osteen Give an Answer

  1. Bub

    August 19, 2014 at 10:18 pm

    Joel Osteen isn’t homosexual?

     
  2. Will S.

    August 19, 2014 at 10:20 pm

    LOL! 🙂

     
  3. electricangel

    August 19, 2014 at 10:28 pm

    Homosexuality isn’t a sin. sodomy, however, IS. what do Prots think about, y’know, knob gobbling when it’s man-woman?

     
    • Will S.

      August 19, 2014 at 10:38 pm

      @ EA: “Homosexuality isn’t a sin.”

      I did say “condemning such behaviour as sinful and grossly wrong as we ought to do”; i.e. condemn the behaviour, the acting out on such an orientation, rather than the orientation itself.

      “sodomy, however, IS. what do Prots think about, y’know, knob gobbling when it’s man-woman?”

      Rather than open a can of worms, I’m going to remove the tag ‘sodomite’.

      No need to get into a pointless debate, after all.

      I will note that some Catholic commenters in our pages have defended certain acts as foreplay as long as ending in normal vaginal intercourse, rather than as ends in themselves.

      But we all condemn homosexual activity.

       
  4. feeriker

    August 20, 2014 at 10:02 am

    I couldn’t be arsed to watch more than a minute and three quarters or so of any of them..

    You beat my attention span where any such people are concerned by 1.44999999 minutes.

    You’re a very brave (I guess that’s the word for it) man and have done us a public service by wading through this verbal sludge so that the rest of us don’t have to. Now go hit the showers and get cleaned up.

     
  5. Peter Blood

    August 20, 2014 at 12:50 pm

    I cringe about 10 seconds in for each video.

    Tim Keller: back on his heels in the face of an aggressive accuser.
    Piper: Agonizing over the question.
    Osteen: gives correct, simple answer quickly, then starts “BUT”ting.

     
  6. Will S.

    August 20, 2014 at 4:23 pm

    @ feeriker: 🙂

    @: PB: That’s really all you need to see, anyway… 10 seconds would have been better…

     
  7. Patrick Pedat Ebediyah Golston

    August 20, 2014 at 5:19 pm

    Sheesh…I just couldn’t finish any of them, but I’m pleasantly surprised that Osteen at least gave it the old college try.

    Ugh..watching that was like constipation…just could squeeze out anything but pebbles when you know there is a log waiting to emerge. LOL

     
  8. Will S.

    August 20, 2014 at 5:50 pm

    LOL, yeah. Good anal-ogy. 😉

     
  9. Eric

    August 20, 2014 at 10:41 pm

    Will:
    I thought their responses all sucked too. All of them violated a rule of formal logic by appealing to Scripture, and that plays right into the progs’ hands.

    If I were interviewed by a SAP (smart-ass progressive) and he asked if homosexuality were a sin; I would put him on the defensive by arguing that sin is analogous to moral crime: and just as progress of civilization strives towards an ideal, so Christianity spiritualizes the concept by promoting the idea that man should strive to be like God, as an ideal. Then I’d ask Mr.SAP what social/spiritual ideal promoting homosexuality was trying to reach?

    Progs never hear this kind of argument in modern Academia, so he would probably be biting his tongue. So to fill in the blank for him, I’d continue by pointing out that promiscuous homosexuality becomes more prevalent the lower a stage of development any civilization is in. Gay Rights advocates themselves claim that homosexuality is ‘natural’ because chimps engage in it for pleasure; savages do too, barbarian cultures somewhat; but the further removed man is from the ape, the less inclined he is to engage in that kind of behavior.

    But if anybody in Academia wrote anything like that today, his books would burned in a public protest and he would consider himself fortunate to escape the fate of his writings!

     
  10. Will S.

    August 20, 2014 at 10:47 pm

    Eric, I would love to see someone argue thus! It probably wouldn’t change progs’ minds any more than referring to Scripture does, but their losing it as they sputter in outrage would not only be most enjoyable for us to behold, but would hopefully also would have the effect of causing some more or less neutral observers to see progs as the angry, hate-filled bigots they are…

    Or so I at least would hope, anyway. 🙂

     
  11. electricangel

    August 20, 2014 at 10:49 pm

    @Will,

    Just so’s were clear that the sodomy is sinful.

    @Patrick,
    Ugh..watching that was like constipation…just could squeeze out anything but pebbles when you know there is a log waiting to emerge. LOL

    OK, so I just KNOW you’re referring to this one:
    What’s the number one pickup line in gay bars?
    Can I push your stool in for you?

    The log… never emerges.

     
  12. Will S.

    August 20, 2014 at 10:56 pm

    @ EA: Homosexual sexual activity is sinful; on that we agree.

    Scripture says:

    http://biblehub.com/leviticus/18-22.htm

    Now, one could dig into the precise implications of mankind not lying with mankind as mankind does with womankind, but IMO, for the sake of peace, it’s best not to go beyond what we know we agree on.

     
    • electricangel

      August 20, 2014 at 11:16 pm

      I recall here the idea of the “abominable snow man.” Perhaps he was also homosexual, as he was an abomination.

      I think the proper answer to any such question is to tell the questioner that homosexuality is not sinful, but sodomy is. Then offer to, in some way, help the homosexuals to overcome their compulsion to sin. There’s really nothing else to do: Leviticus is clear. That helpfulness will drive a Progressive nuts.

      As to the joke, there’s the matching one: What did one lesbian frog say to the other?
      They’re right; we do taste like chicken.

      I don’t think the Bible bans men from going down on women. Yet another cross to bear.

       
  13. Will S.

    August 20, 2014 at 10:58 pm

    “What’s the number one pickup line in gay bars?
    Can I push your stool in for you?”

    Oh, that’s a great joke, EA. LOL! 🙂

     
  14. Will S.

    August 20, 2014 at 11:37 pm

    @EA: You’re right, it doesn’t.

    That’s not the only thing it doesn’t say, either.

    But I’m not getting into it.

    Except to ask you, what do you think of this:

    http://www.beginningcatholic.com/christian-oral-sex.html

    I ask not to start an argument, for I will not argue with you about it, but just to understand your POV: do you disagree with that, or not? And why / why not?

    BTW, I got that from CL, in a link on a page which was linked in the comments on this post:

    https://patriactionary.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/manosphere-matrix/

    She, 7man, Svar, and Steve N. / Master Po all seemed to be in agreement with the jist of it.

     
  15. Will S.

    August 20, 2014 at 11:41 pm

    Oh, and as per Leviticus, it said ‘it’ (the act) is an abomination, not the person doing the act.

    However, at that point, it did require death:

    http://biblehub.com/leviticus/20-13.htm

    Even we don’t believe in that, today.

     
    • electricangel

      August 21, 2014 at 8:44 am

      @Eric,

      But you can also use that in a straight bar, if a man. A friend reminds me of his old favorite, how can you tell your camp counselor’s gay? His dick tastes like shit.

      @will,

      We actually do believe in death for sodomy today. That’s what sin IS, the threatened death of the soul; the line I recall is that “they will be as if they never were.” We’ve just decided that the guy who gets to judge that… Isn’t actually a guy.

       
  16. Eric

    August 21, 2014 at 12:21 am

    Electricangel:
    The second best pickup line in a gay bar is:

    “Try out this new drink: it’s the second best thing you’ll ever put in your mouth.”

     
  17. Will S.

    August 21, 2014 at 9:14 am

    Indeed, EA, there are eternal consequences for unrepentant homosexuals, according to Scripture.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6%3A9-10&version=KJV;NLT;NASB;NIV;AMP

     
  18. Gerry T. Neal

    August 21, 2014 at 3:36 pm

    I just watched all three videos. Viewed in their entirety, I would probably say John Piper’s was the best. Tim Keller’s was definitely the worst. I can see why Will would say that Olsteen gave the best answer when he gave a succinct yes, because the Bible says so. All three made the excellent point that there are other sins too. Keller was dead wrong in saying that Jesus talks about greed ten times more often than he does about adultery. He was almost right when he said that sin doesn’t send people to hell. There wouldn’t be a hell if there was no sin, so in that sense he’s wrong. But all people – except Jesus – sin and so all people deserve hell. What ultimately sends a person to hell is not sin, or even certain kinds of sin, but rejection of Christ. I think that is what Keller meant but I don’t like the way he worded it. It seemed like he was exemplifying the very kind of self-righteousness he was condemning in others to make brownie points with his progressive interviewer.

     
    • Will S.

      August 21, 2014 at 4:32 pm

      Wow, Gerry; you are a far more patient man than I. 🙂

      Yes, it is absence of faith in Christ and His atoning work that ultimately is what dooms people to hell, because of their sins. It is true that singling out any one as being the single reason for one’s damnation is wrong. Yet Scripture does clearly define some as worse than others.

       

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