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Western men are “winning”, or, Conversation with a Young Woman

16 Aug

It is not often that I have access to 21-year-old women in a social setting. I recently had the chance to talk one-on-one with a young woman, using a number of topics from game to spice up my conversation. Here are some notes I took.

Socioeconomic Factors

The young woman, let’s call her Naomi, is attending a large university in the US Capital, pursuing a degree in a non-STEM field. Her parents, upper-middle-class residents of a suburb of a major American city, are in the unfortunate spot of having spent a LOT on a house a few years back, in an area where the property taxes exceed the average annual household income for an American. They cannot sell, as the house is now a white elephant, and they cannot give much financial support to Naomi as she pursues her studies.

Naomi already owes over $50,000 in student loans (I visibly winced when she told me the number. In future years, this number will compete with THE number in making women unmarriageable.). She has come to realize that the higher-ed system is (or can be, and USUALLY is) a scam. She is visibly angry about this, and knows she will be unlikely to get any employment to pay off the loans. (I suggested she move to a foreign country where she has, because of ancestry, the right to move, and tell the creditors to go pound sand. She was intrigued that an adult was NOT trying to scam her, for once.) The palpable anger has not coalesced into any plan of action, but this has to be a constant topic of concern to young, white, college-attending women.

Sexual Factors

Naomi is not, from what I could tell, a virgin. Her partner count is low, somewhere south of 5 (and possibly only two), but her physique shows the same small lack of restraint with food that she has shown with men. She is not fat, but is not the slender, reserved young woman that her friend, who introduced me to her, is (and that woman IS a virgin, going into her senior year of college.) She travelled overseas as a part of college life, and I think had one overseas lover, and one steady college boyfriend.

On direct questioning, she admitted that she would only want to marry a college-educated man. I talked about math with her: if 60% of college attendees now are women, and 40% are men, then at least one third of college-educated women WILL NEVER find a male partner of their own status. She had never run the numbers quite like this, but her college loan burden had forced her to look at her routes out of her problem, and caused her to realize she had to keep open the possibility of marriage (to a beta sap?). This meant that she was turning AWAY from going on the carousel full time, as she realized that that would make her unmarriageable. Part of her anger at the University System stemmed from her MMV-lowering activities fueled by that in-loco-parentis-avoiding institution; she KNOWS at a base level that her friend, a pretty, slim, virgin, “sells” at a higher MMV than she does. She is now determined NOT to lower her MMV any further, as far as I could tell.

The Hamster Lives!

Naomi recounted the tale of her visit to a northern German city. She did not like it; she found it “cold.” When I pressed her on the subject, she said it was because she and some other attractive women had gone out to a bar in the city, and none of the German men had hit on them! Gentlemen if there was any proof needed that women dress provocatively to extract a reaction from men, this was it. After years of telling us that they did not want attention from men, when they finally got what they claimed they were asking for, they are unhappy!

Cultural Marxism

Naomi mouthed all the platitudes of feminism and cultural Marxism. This is, I believe, because she has learned to do so with the adults at the very liberal school she attends. She mentioned all the highlights of achieving the feminist merit badge. But she also knows that higher ed is a scam, and is reluctant to pursue the grad school option at the cost of many more years and MANY more dollars.

What’s interesting is what happens when a man (that would be ME) creates the shelter in which non-PC opinions can be mouthed. First I went after diversity. Within five minutes, Naomi was asking WHY, after 45 years of civil rights, we still had affirmative action. She has NO guilt about any of the past, and sees NO reason why any minority ought to get a hand up, good indication that much of the liberal program of the 60s will come to an end in the coming crisis.

I used this as my lever into asking about women getting affirmative action privilege. She not only HAD to admit that point, she willingly did so, and her support for feminism then showed as a mile wide, and an inch deep. She recognizes that it is a bad deal, and has caused too many young women to lack access to the one choice that many of them want, a husband and children.

Societal Observations

At one point in the conversation before I paired off with Naomi, an older feminist mentioned something about misogyny in Muslim societies (I consider Muslims to be potential Patriactionaries, but my colleagues often demur.) I rather angrily responded with the line of argument that just WALLOPED me when dropped on me by a Muslim colleague: what could be more anti-woman than a society that forces women to work and school during their young, fertile years, and denies too many of them of the pleasures of life from times immemorial for women: husband and family. The older feminist and I will revisit this line of argument at some point.

What was interesting was Naomi’s much later observation on a Muslim country not known for fanaticism. She mentioned how, while the men were nominally in charge in that country due to Islam, ALL THE POWER in the family in most cases, was held by the women. In one of her most revealing comments of the night, she said that “Western men” would never stand to be treated like that. What she means is, the young men of the West have learned not to put up with women’s crap, and 20-something women are having a much harder time controlling them than their “oppressed” grandmothers did.

In conclusion

Men are always the innovators in society. Facing a future of limited job prospects and the scorn of young women, men have learned to avoid taking on massive debt and to build a new social way of being without the NEED for women. But women actually do NEED men more than men need women; Naomi spoke highly disapprovingly of women who have children out of wedlock, so she will NEED a husband if she wants to fulfill her biological imperative. Game and MGTOW have forced a change in the behavior of younger women, who now realize they are competing for a small group of high-status men. Naomi will likely return to a more religious orientation as she tries to salvage what she can of her MMV, and the 20-something men will be the heroes who rebuild a Patriactionary society.

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26 responses to “Western men are “winning”, or, Conversation with a Young Woman

  1. Will S.

    August 16, 2012 at 11:21 am

    Interesting, EA. Seems like Naomi has a fair amount of ‘common sense’ in her approach to things, though obviously not in everything. I certainly wish her well, and hope she continues to grow in her understandings.

     
  2. Ulysses

    August 16, 2012 at 11:58 am

    True social Darwinism arises not from economic programs but from biological competition. When young ladies realize the flip side of what feminism has wrought–their own diminished value–things might change. Of course, I’m more optimistic than the average blogosphere inhabitant.

     
  3. electricangel1978

    August 16, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    @Will, Ulysses,

    There’s great reason for optimism. Naomi has two younger sisters, and they’re both getting notes on life from her. They will be less likely to hop on the first boy that their unrestrained hamsters want them to.

    I think this goes back to the plundering of society by the Silent Generation in America. I read once about how screwed later Boomer men and X men were by simple demographics. The average disparity in marriage age is about 2 years. Silent gen men and early boomers could then look at the women two years down the line; there were more in those cohorts than in theirs, so it was a bonanza for them. Men born about 1955 and after had the opposite problem: fewer women born after them, and so more competition, which drove female bad behavior. Then the feminists decided to cash in on the stable, safe society by kicking the beta males who built it in the teeth, and we come to our current postion.

    One thing Roissy wrote about was the “Hitler theory of beautiful Russian women.” Basically, Hitler’s invasion killed SO MANY young men in Russia that it upset the balance of sexual power in that society, giving the surviving men the pick of the women. Only the most beautiful got a husband and a chance to breed, and the result today is the excess of beautiful women in that part of the world.

    The 60/40 women/men college imbalance, the result of the “war of the sexes” that killed (figuratively, or in the case of divorce suicide, literally) so many men, has caused a drastic revision in the sexual and marriage market place. I suspect that only the prettiest, most faithful and valuable ones will be able to get husbands and breed. Feminism is going to be bred out of existence, IF we can stop supporting illegitimacy through government.

     
  4. Ryu

    August 16, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Holy Jesus. I must have gotten lost, I thought this was the man-o-sphere. None of those rats take about affirmative action. Congratulations – you are better than most of them.

     
  5. Columnist

    August 16, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    “She mentioned how, while the men were nominally in charge in that country due to Islam, ALL THE POWER in the family in most cases, was held by the women. In one of her most revealing comments of the night, she said that “Western men” would never stand to be treated like that.”

    In time, maybe it will not be feminism, but MRM from the West that will do in Islam. It would be very ironic.

     
  6. Will S.

    August 16, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    @ Columnist: I think Islamic society is going down the same road as the West has, if recent developments in Saudi Arabia are any indication… And so, feminism will have a similar impact there to what it has, here…

     
  7. Will S.

    August 16, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    @ EA: “There’s great reason for optimism. Naomi has two younger sisters, and they’re both getting notes on life from her. They will be less likely to hop on the first boy that their unrestrained hamsters want them to.”

    That’s good; always good when those who have made mistakes, even small ones, can serve as a warning to others

     
  8. chesterpoe

    August 16, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    There are certain things about my generation which make them smarter and certain things which make them dumber. Among the women that I know within 2 years of my age, the general attitude is against feminism. Commonly I hear “I was not a bra burner yet I have to suffer the consequences.” This is usually followed by disdain of knowing their future is centered around a career. Typically I replied, “well then I guess you would not mind staying at home cooking, cleaning, and waiting on the man to get home?” expecting them to say some feminist crap; but they never do. Usually they say “that beats working and piling up loan debt.”

    As for the dumber side; they are completely brainwashed in race issues (“we all bleed red”), immigration problems, religion (“you cannot prove God exists”), and general morality (“all morals are relative”). When I hear that my blood pressure must go through the roof because my ears get hot and I have been told my face turns red (I am quick to anger thanks to my Irish, German, and Hungarian ancestry).

     
  9. Will S.

    August 16, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    @ EA: “The 60/40 women/men college imbalance, the result of the “war of the sexes” that killed (figuratively, or in the case of divorce suicide, literally) so many men, has caused a drastic revision in the sexual and marriage market place. I suspect that only the prettiest, most faithful and valuable ones will be able to get husbands and breed. Feminism is going to be bred out of existence, IF we can stop supporting illegitimacy through government.”

    Interestingly, as I noted in my new post, Saudi Arabia has that same college imbalance, at least in terms of its graduates, 60% of which are women… It will be interesting to see how things play out, there…

     
  10. electricangel1978

    August 16, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    @Ryu,

    “I must have gotten lost, I thought this was the man-o-sphere. None of those rats take about affirmative action.”
    Well, we’re Patriactionaries. Not sure that the whole US and French Revolution things were good ideas. Cultural Marxism is an outgrowth of the French Revolution, and we HATE the French Revolution. AA is an outgrowth of Cultural Marxism, so by the transitive property of reactionism, we hate it too.

    But really, feminism, affirmative action, and a whole host of other ills that afflict us are nothing more than what Thorstein Veblen called “conspicuous consumption.” Or what biologists and PUAs might call “peacocking.” As times get a little harder, and young women confront a future of unpayable debt and economic crisis, they toss aside the foolish spendthriftness of a society that’s not serious about its own propagation and survival. Or they perish.

     
  11. electricangel1978

    August 16, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    @columnist,

    In time, maybe it will not be feminism, but MRM from the West that will do in Islam. It would be very ironic.
    See my first comment over at Will’s new post. I copied a thought I found profound: “The whole purpose of successful religions is to protect the reproductive rights (of) beta males, and the modern church has failed in that duty.”

    Islam, it now appears, was set up for this purpose. Feminism will destroy it.

     
  12. Old Glory

    August 16, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Very good read. I heard a senior at Georgetown tell some of her fellow female classmates that calling oneself a “feminist” is a negative term for women. This was a about year ago, but after reading this, I’m thinking maybe, just maybe, some of them are waking up to the reality.

     
  13. electricangel1978

    August 16, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    @chesterpoe
    (I am quick to anger thanks to my Irish, German, and Hungarian ancestry)
    Ouch! Hungarians are all nuts, and the Irish, well… Do you know the definition of Irish Alzheimers? You forget everything but your enemies! Germans are usually sober, except when their economies and societies have been destroyed by inflation and war. Recall that Luther was reacting CONSERVATIVELY against the louche Rome of his time.

    Since the young ladies have all those issues with God and race, here’s a joke to help you out with both religion and ethnicity. Do you know the difference between heaven and hell? In heaven, the French cook; the British are the police; the Germans build the cars; the Swiss coordinate and organize everything; and the Italians are the lovers. In hell, the British cook; the French build the cars; the Germans are the police; the Italians organize everything; and the Swiss are the lovers. (hang on the word Swiss the second time when telling it!)

    But as for you: you must maintain an attitude of Amused Mastery. NEVER let them get your blood boiling. Let your anger be sublimated to your will. Gain control over yourself, and you will gain control over them.

     
  14. Will S.

    August 16, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    @ EA: “Do you know the difference between heaven and hell? In heaven, the French cook; the British are the police; the Germans build the cars; the Swiss coordinate and organize everything; and the Italians are the lovers. In hell, the British cook; the French build the cars; the Germans are the police; the Italians organize everything; and the Swiss are the lovers.”

    Reminds me of a joke someone once made about Canada:

    We could have had British government, French culture, and American know-how.

    Instead, we got French government, American culture, and British know-how. 😉

     
  15. chesterpoe

    August 16, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    So I have the craziness of a Hungarian, a mile long enemy list of an Irishman, and the ingenuity of a German. Watch out! As for the joke, it is definitely a good one and something I need to remember. Anyway, I never let my anger get the best of me. No one can ever tell you the last time I raised my voice, used profanity when upset, or repeat myself when someone does something I told them not to do. For me it is always a sort of indifference to things, something which causes people to often say I “think I am better than everyone else”. The fact is, petty issues are not my concern – nor are petty people.

     
  16. electricangel1978

    August 16, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    @Chesterpoe,

    I match you two out of three on ethnicity, and maybe 3/3. My Hungarian ancestors’ name suggests they were part of the Irish settled in Hungary after Austria reconquered it from the Turks, and needed a good supply of Catholics to repopulate the land. Recall that the Prot Hungarians (mostly Lutherans) backed the Turks b/c they were better off under the Ottoman Emperor than the Catholic Hapsburgs.

    “For me it is always a sort of indifference to things, something which causes people to often say I “think I am better than everyone else”.”
    Agree and amplify. “I know I am, and better than everyone else who ever lived too.” Watch them swoon!

     
  17. chesterpoe

    August 16, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Well no one in my family knows our real last name on the Hungarian side. My uncle tried to figure it out but the FBI came to visit him and ordered he stop searching. All I do know is that they spoke Prekmurje, called themselves Windish and Hungarian, and were Lutheran.

    “Agree and amplify. “I know I am, and better than everyone else who ever lived too.” Watch them swoon!”

    Oh how I would love to, but being a good Christian such prideful statements are not permitted. I do think it in my head though.

     
  18. electricangel1978

    August 16, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    @CP,

    Oh how I would love to, but being a good Christian such prideful statements are not permitted. I do think it in my head though.

    In high school, all male, we learned to think of Jesus as just like us. A wise-ass. After all, a LOT of the quotables are things that a smart kid might say to avoid trouble yet get his point across. “Render unto Caesar” is superb: just what part of Creation does NOT belong to God? I think one reason for the enduring strength of Christianity is this adaptability of Jesus: there’s enough there for everyone to reflect himself in Him.

    But Pride ought to be known as Vainglory. See Will’s review of Zmirak’s Bad Catholic’s Guide to the Seven Deadly Sins. And humility, the virtue that we ought to demonstrate to avoid vainglory, or its counterpart, servility, does NOT require us to bow and scrape and remove any sense of dignity or respect. Rather, humility requires that we ADMIT TO, and THANK God for our gifts, (even boast a bit about them), but recognize that they are so small in the whole scheme of things. So I am being humble when I tell people that I could do some demanding intellectual task because I am smart, because I know that I lack the courage of a Campion, the purity of an Aquinas, the genuine love of St. Theresa of Lisieux, to name three Catholic saints associated with intellectual achievement. Keep your eyes on the prize, heaven, and your humility will follow. Amused mastery, and agree and amplify, can fit well with this.

     
  19. allamagoosa

    August 16, 2012 at 6:43 pm

    Looking at my classmates, I can tell you that Naomi is pretty standard as far as college age women go. At least that’s what I see when I look around the small, liberal teaching college I attend. Feminism is starting to be a bad word and there is a decent interest in marriage. At least as much as one can be interested when there is only one man for every four women on campus.

     
  20. David Collard

    August 17, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    electricangel, surely you meant St Teresa of Avila.

     
  21. electricangel1978

    August 17, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    @DC,

    No, I meant Lisieux. See this. She is one of only three female Doctors of the Church. Of course, one of the other two is YOUR St. Teresa, so now you’ve added to my reading list.

     
  22. Samson J.

    December 31, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    Well, this is an ancient thread!

    As for the dumber side; they are completely brainwashed in race issues (“we all bleed red”), immigration problems, religion (“you cannot prove God exists”), and general morality (“all morals are relative”).

    It’s pretty interesting that they appear to have traditional desires for marriage, but not traditional or Christian views on other things.

     

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