Ray Sawhill highlighted this WSJ piece on nagging; Vox Day and Private Man have already weighed in on the subject.
The Bible long ago weighed in on the matter:
Proverbs 21:9
Better to live on the corner of a roof than to share a house with a nagging wife.
Proverbs 21:19
Better to live in a wilderness than with a nagging and hot-tempered wife.
Proverbs 25:24
Better to live on the corner of a roof than to share a house with a nagging wife.
(Holman Christian Standard Bible; other translations use ‘quarrelsome’ or similar words, but also sometimes employ the word ‘nag’ in at least one of these three verses.)
Proverbs 19:13
A nagging wife is like water going drip-drip-drip..
Proverbs 27:15
A nagging wife is like water going drip-drip-drip on a rainy day.
(Good News Translation.)
I note, however, the Bible says nothing about nagging mothers or fathers…
Nor about nagging husbands, because that is clearly unusual, and very uncommon. (True, Proverbs is more aimed at men, certainly, of course. Men don’t have to deal with nagging men, unless they’re gay, in which case they’re not living Christianly. That does bring up an important point: the most bitchy men tend to be not particularly masculine, in fact, usually gay… Nagging, of spouses / non-children at least, is a typically feminine and effeminate trait, not a masculine one.)
Why do many women nag their husbands / boyfriends – and/or children? Why don’t some? Is it just a giant fitness-test? Or are they simply quarrelsome and seeking to control, regardless? Is it just insecurity? How do you deal with it? Is it inevitable? Or are their red flags that warn you ahead of time, that a particular woman is more prone to it than another?
Is the nagging of a husband / boyfriend, related to the nagging of a child? Or is it an altogether unrelated phenomenon, when a wife and mother nags both her husband and her child(ren)?
Let’s discuss.
Elspeth
January 29, 2012 at 5:57 am
Dangnabbit, Will! I have a post on this very article coming uo today as well, LOL.
I thought this was disturbing on a number of levels. The physical reaction the husband described himself experiencing when his wife nagged him was not good. Imagine men having to constantly deal with that. They are literally being nagged to death.
Oh, and did you note again that the wife was older and kept her last name? I know you did.
Carnivore
January 29, 2012 at 6:23 am
The cartoon over at WSJ reminds me of a lifting buddy I had at one time. He and his wife hosted the big Thanksgiving Day dinner with all the relatives and agreed on who would do the dishes afterwards. By Tuesday of the following week, with the sink still piled high, the nagging started.
Oh, forgot to mention, they had agreed she, as a stay at home wife, would do the dishes. He finally got sick of it and started nagging her to get it done.
Will S.
January 29, 2012 at 8:49 am
@ Elspeth: Hey, the more the merrier! I look forward to reading your further thoughts.
Yeah, that can’t be good, to have that kind of reaction. But nagging is stressful, and no doubt there are those who experience that stress in terms of increased blood pressure, etc.
Indeed, the first thing I noticed was that their name wasn’t the same; the second thing, was the irony that she is a motivational speaker. I thought, how interesting, that… Does she nag her clients, I wonder, to motivate them? If she wouldn’t dream of doing so, knowing how little that would work, why should she do it to the man she loves more than any other human in the world? Unless of course, she doesn’t really love him, as I’m sure is often the case with perpetual naggers.
@ Carnivore: Gosh, what a lazy fucking bitch! There’s a reason why I go back and forth on whether I wish I was married; on the one hand, it’d be nice to have someone, not be lonely, and perhaps be able to have kids; to have love, sex, companionship, etc.; on the other hand, horror stories like that of your former lifting buddy, make me glad I’m still a bachelor; imagine being married to a lazy bitch like that. I know you cherish your bachelorhood, and I completely understand why.
Kathy
January 29, 2012 at 9:16 am
“Better to live on the corner of a roof than to share a house with a nagging wife.”
Yeah, well… guys are pretty easy going and accommodating.
Now, if she were putting out every night life would at least be reasonably tolerable.
Come to think of it .. If she were putting out every night she would be in a much happier frame of mind and would not be such a nag.
That’s the problem with nagging wives.
A damn good **** on a regular basis would fix the problem..
Will S.
January 29, 2012 at 9:20 am
@ Kathy: LOL, true. But of course, she has to be in the mood to do so, and that seems a lot to ask, of a modern, entitlement-mentality princess, one who prefers to use sex as a weapon, to manipulate her husband with, rather than viewing it as a joyful shared activity that couples who love each other should delight in, as often as possible. (Of course, that’s the keyword: love. A woman who uses sex as a weapon against her husband really doesn’t love him.)
Kathy
January 29, 2012 at 9:33 am
“(Of course, that’s the keyword: love. A woman who uses sex as a weapon against her husband really doesn’t love him.)”
Very true Will… This is an observation that I have also made.. Why would a woman cut off her nose to spite her face, otherwise?
Sex is a mutually pleasurable act, after all.
Will S.
January 29, 2012 at 9:42 am
It certainly should be.
Joycalyn
January 29, 2012 at 10:21 am
I think some women nag because they want something done and they don’t know how else to make it happen. Some women do it because they’re unhappy creatures with a bitter disposition and it doesn’t matter what husband and children do, it’s not ever enough. My husband was raised by such a person; his dad died young (at 52) and he left home with inflammatory bowel disease, in essence bleeding internally. It cleared up within weeks of being away from her and he hasn’t had it since.
There’s also Proverbs 14:1 — A wise woman builds her house, but the foolish tears it down with her own hands.
Isn’t that a vivid word pitcure?
Will S.
January 29, 2012 at 10:26 am
Indeed, it is, Joycalyn. So true…
I suppose the reasons can be varied, of course.
7man
January 29, 2012 at 10:41 am
Kathy said: “Now, if she were putting out every night life would at least be reasonably tolerable.”
Will said: “LOL, true. But of course, she has to be in the mood to do so, and that seems a lot to ask…
It is counterproductive to make it dependant on her mood. Then she must always decide (which might work for a few women, but not for most women). Women often don’t know if they are in the mood and having to make the decision takes her out of the mood. Her deciding sounds great in theory but in practice it doesn’t work well since it puts her in exclusive control of the sexual aspect of the marriage and she looses respect since she will not perceive her husband as dominant.
He must respectfully claim what belongs to him in an assertive but benevolent way. He does not ASK, he TELLS and then is observant of her demeanor to decide whether to claim what is “his right.” This is a paradox but it leads to a contented woman that feels treasured by her man.
This is the dynamic that reduces nagging, as Kathy alluded to.
Will S.
January 29, 2012 at 10:47 am
Agreed, 7man.
Kathy
January 29, 2012 at 6:38 pm
“Women often don’t know if they are in the mood and having to make the decision takes her out of the mood”
Yes, this is true of many women 7 man. Too often they are thinking about other things… Often inconsequential stuff. Making love is not uppermost in their minds. Women are easily distracted and not as focused as men usually are. Once a woman learns to block out all the distractions (even the kids) for some couple time then the relationship is greatly enhanced. The simple fact is, if a woman has regular sex with her husband the more she is going want it, the more attached and bonded to him she will become. (The reverse is also true)
“He must respectfully claim what belongs to him in an assertive but benevolent way. He does not ASK, he TELLS and then is observant of her demeanor to decide whether to claim what is “his right.” This is a paradox but it leads to a contented woman that feels treasured by her man.”
Yes well said 7man. I totally agree. A man must assert himself. And it’s a woman’s duty to comply. Personally I don’t see anything wrong with a husband scooping up his wife, whispering a few sexy lines in her ear, grinning broadly and carrying her off to the bedroom(a la Rhett Butler style) and giving her one..
Whilst the husband has a right to assert himself over his woman, I believe it is also up to the wife herself to make an effort even when she DOES NOT feel in the mood.. A Husband like to be surprised by an amorous and willing wife who loves him and has the “hots” for him.. At least from time to time.. It’s a marvellous aphrodisiac for a husband who has been working extremely hard all day and is dog tired.. His flagging energy levels suddenly take a turn for the better.
It also reinforces the fact that his wife finds him desirable and loves him very much.
In the end it all comes down to love..and respect.
If a woman truly and deeply loves her man she will follow him to the ends of the earth..
She will do whatever he wants (within reason of course..) Nothing will be too much trouble where her husband is concerned.
Elspeth
January 29, 2012 at 6:39 pm
I’ll repeat what I said over on my post on the subject of nagging:
My husband would never tolerate being treated that way. I would gain nothing from nagging him. Not only would he not acquiesce, but he wouldn’t listen to it at all for more than 10 seconds before telling me in no uncertain terms to shut up. And no, my husband is not a tyrant or an abuser. He just refuses to be treated as if he isn’t the man of his house.
I have to wonder about the apparently significant numbers of men who subject themselves to this. After all aren’t modern wives constantly counseled by the feminist and egalitarian Christians about the things they should not tolerate in marriage? Why are men expected to tolerate such disrespect?
I agree that women need to stop the insanity. But I suspect a majority will never get there unless their husbands lead them to it by putting their foot down.
Will S.
January 29, 2012 at 6:43 pm
(For any who aren’t aware, Elspeth’s post on nagging is here.)
Will S.
January 29, 2012 at 6:49 pm
@ Kathy: Indeed, it seems obvious that if the love between a couple is great, then there ought not be much nagging.
@ Elspeth: I think many men today are afraid of their wives, because of what can happen if they walk out and divorce them. So they put up with a lot, because they feel trapped, worrying that if they talk back to their wives, that she might get upset and in time, leave them. I’m just guessing, but there’s a reason why many men cynically refer to marriage as “the old ball-and-chain”.
Elspeth
January 29, 2012 at 6:59 pm
Maybe you’re right Will. I’m thinking that the constant cowering under her shrill and unstable leadership increases the risk of having his wife take the kids and leave more than a strong man who refuses to hand over his er…manhood to his wife.
There’s a balance to be struck here of course, and I’m not suggesting that husbands bully their wives. My husband is very good to me, and even spoils me a bit from time to time by letting me have my way. But when the rubber meets the road, this is his castle. I submit to him. I know that there’s only so far I can go before he sets me straight. And he knows that I know.
It makes for a more solid relationship, not a more tenuous one.
I’m open to the fact that I could be wrong about this, but clearly the fact that 70% of divorces are instigated by women indicates that this subservient male behavior isn’t producing the desired result, LOL.
Will S.
January 29, 2012 at 7:06 pm
That’s the sad irony, Elspeth; many men don’t understand what a fitness test / shit test, is. And that in giving in all the time, to their wives’ demands, they actually hurt themselves, in the long run, all too often.
I think my parents’ relationship is much like your and your husband’s; my dad indulges my mom a fair bit, but when he puts his foot down, she accepts it without question.
Carnivore
January 30, 2012 at 6:46 am
Will, Elspeth is right. Fear of divorce would keep men from marrying, not prevent them from leading once within a marriage. The problem is upbringing. Most men don’t have the male role model in that department, even if they have a father at home. School and popular culture instills the view of man as servant to woman.
Will S.
January 30, 2012 at 8:08 am
I agree, Carnivore, that fear of divorce will keep some men from marrying, but I imagine some who are married, just acquiesce to nagging / bossy wives, out of fear. Not all men who are married lead their wives, alas. Some are content to follow. I have a few friends whose wives basically rule them.