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Men not acting like they used to…

17 Jan

… is a natural consequence, however unintended, of women not acting like they used to.

Two recent examples, here and here.

Can’t say I blame them…

Chivalry is dead; feminism killed it.

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76 Comments

Posted by on January 17, 2012 in culture, Masculinity

 

76 responses to “Men not acting like they used to…

  1. Elspeth

    January 17, 2012 at 9:30 am

    We’ve come a long way, baby.

    Apparently children were also among those refused preference. I found that a little off-putting.

    However, women have long ceased to conduct themselves in a way that inspires men to sacrifice on our behalf.

    Equality isn’t just for when it’s convenient for and advantageous to the females. It cuts both ways. Or it should.

     
  2. Will S.

    January 17, 2012 at 9:33 am

    Exactly, Elspeth. Men will aspire to high ideals, when women uphold high ideals as worthy, and reward those who practice and promote them, accordingly, as well. If not, they will adjust accordingly. It’s that simple, really.

     
  3. Will S.

    January 17, 2012 at 9:35 am

    And if women claim complete equality, men will give them no special consideration, as in the ‘bad old days’ of patriarchy. Women can have equality, and lose spots on lifeboats, not have strangers help them look out for dangers to their kids, or they can have special treatment. They cannot have both.

     
  4. Carnivore

    January 17, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Following a link someone posted at Dalrock’s, I perused the Taken in Hand site and found the following applicable gem written by a woman who has her head on straight:

    But nature isn’t fair, and it is nature that has given men superior body strength, and it is the reason why civilisation hangs by such a fragile thread. So long as enough men agree that Might is not Right, civilisation stands. If enough men decide that Might IS Right, civilisation crumbles. If nature should triumph over civilisation, women will be entirely at the mercy of men, and I doubt that all the punching, kicking and hair-pulling the average woman can do will make much difference.

    I’d be afraid if changing times come to Might is Right. Women should be very afraid.

     
  5. Will S.

    January 17, 2012 at 10:18 am

    They should be; civilization, which men built, protects them. In its absence, they’re at the mercy of the law of the jungle. Which is to say, there is no mercy, without civilization.

     
  6. Svar

    January 17, 2012 at 10:32 am

    Yeah, it’s sad, but that’s ekwalitee at it’s finest.

    I’ve come to the decision to never help out women or children that are neither kith nor kin. You can’t trust strangers in today’s world.

     
  7. Will S.

    January 17, 2012 at 10:50 am

    True.

     
  8. Kathy

    January 17, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    I have read quite a few accounts of what occured on this ship and I believe what happened had nothing to do with feminism but rather more to do with panic, mass hysteria chaos, miscommunication and confusion. It was obvious the crew were ill prepared to deal with such a situation and panicked. Many other staff on the ship, cooks, waiters, dancers etc were helping passengers.

    Eight British dancers were on-board the boat and were among the last to leave the sinking vessel, with many staying behind to help others to safety.

    “Giuseppe D’Avino, a pastry chef from Modena, told The Sunday Telegraph: ‘There was a lot of panic, screams, children crying,’ he said. ‘Some passengers came to blows as they tried to get in the lifeboats.’

    Also speaking to the newspaper, Fabio Costa, a crewmate, said: ‘We were giving priority to kids and women and trying to leave the men until last, but they were not accepting it because it was their families”

    Mass hysteria.. Men and women scrambling for lifeboats.. Just can’t see how this has anything to do with feminism.

    The ships purser was in fact a selfless hero..

    “I never lost hope of being saved. It was a 36-hour nightmare,” said ship’s purser Manrico Giampedroni, 57, who was found as rescue teams probed the dark, cold corridors of the partially-submerged vessel, emboldened after finding a South Korean couple alive on Saturday night.

    As the search of the enormous cruise ship continued, Giampedroni emerged as one of the few heroes of the tragedy, amid reports that the captain and other crew members panicked and got into lifeboats ahead of passengers.

    Giampedroni, who joined the cruise company aged 18, had helped load passengers into lifeboats before setting off to search the decks for more passengers at around midnight,”

    Why is so much being made of the fact that a few men were pushing and shoving to get to lifeboats?
    Women were doing the very same thing.. MASS HYSTERIA ! Nothing to do with gender.

    Now, this is where the feminist angle comes into play.. Trying to make men look bad.. I notice that many of these articles criticizing men were written by females…

    Hmmmmm…. I smell a rat here…

     
  9. Will S.

    January 17, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    Oh yes, Kathy. For those who have eyes to see, ears to hear, and minds to think, it’s obvious. Which unfortunately means for many out there, alas, that it isn’t…

     
  10. Fidelbogen

    January 17, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    “I have read quite a few accounts of what occured on this ship and I believe what happened had nothing to do with feminism but rather more to do with panic, mass hysteria chaos, miscommunication and confusion.”

    Kathy, of COURSE that disaster had nothing to do with feminism. It had to do with fear, panic, etc. As you have said.

    No, the people on location were not thinking about “feminism”. But from a distance, we can see that the episode had political significance in our analysis of feminism, and what feminism means to our world.

     
  11. 7man

    January 17, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    I don’t see how societal tendencies would not be evident when there is panic. At those times the veneer of propriety is gone and people act in an unconstrained manner. If the effects of feminism are not evident during those times, then feminism does not exist at all.

    This logic would require me to believe that feminism does not exist in our world. I don’t believe that. So therefore I must believe that feminism and the way people have been conditioned to think and act was present on the sinking ship. It makes more sense to look at it from this perspective than to explain away the impact of feminism by attributing it all to panic and chaos.

    I guess what is obvious to me is the opposite of what is obvious to others. I for one will not act with the herd in times of crisis but strive to think independently and take appropriate action to preserve the lives of those I love and my own life as well.

     
  12. CL

    January 17, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    If the sinking ship (a perfect analogy if ever there were one) didn’t show something of the way a society functions and what it values, why would there not have been the same sort of mass panic aboard sinking ships in the past?

    It used to be “women and children first”; is that because men suck now for no particular reason, or is it thanks to feminism and the push for “equality”?

     
  13. Will S.

    January 17, 2012 at 6:01 pm

    @ Fidelbogen: Well said; the feminists are shameless, and will turn anything, even tragedies like this, to their advantage.

    @ 7man, CL: Indeed, I thought that Vox’s comment, that the crewmen might as well have been wearing T-shirts that say “This is what a feminist looks like”, most apropos. Feminism may not have caused the tragedy, but the fruit of feminism in our society is clearly evident in the lack of chivalry on the part of many men, though not all, on board that ship.

     
  14. 7man

    January 17, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    This is feminist thinking: If men act the same towards women regardless of how women respect men everyday, then there is no reason for women to respect men, since when the SHTF, men are selfish animals anyway. This excuses and negates the fact that the way women act has any bearing on their later safety. It affirms the feminist teaching that men are not necessary or valuable in times of crisis. If only women ran the world, how wonderful, equal and safe it would be for everyone!

    Women have to pay the price in advance for men’s protection. The price is respect and faithful committment. Divorce theft and being shrewish does not bestow any privileges.

     
  15. Will S.

    January 17, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    “Women have to pay the price in advance for men’s protection. The price is respect and faithful committment. Divorce theft and being shrewish does not bestow any privileges.”

    This.

     
  16. Kathy

    January 17, 2012 at 9:07 pm

    “If the sinking ship (a perfect analogy if ever there were one) didn’t show something of the way a society functions and what it values, why would there not have been the same sort of mass panic aboard sinking ships in the past?”

    Read the articles CL. The crew were incompetent and not properly trained in emergency proceedures.

    Confusion and chaoes ensued.

    Crew were not properly trained for emergency and also rushed off ship before many passengers according to a French couple who also say there was no lifeboat drill when they boarded in France.

    The crew had no idea what to do and panicked. There was no leadership. The Captain abandoned ship. It took a brave and humble purser who stepped in and did what he could to help.. An Austalian man holidaying with his wife(they were on the verge of splitting but this disaster brought them together again)
    also helped. A twenty two year old female dancer on board also did what she could risking her own life. Cooks waiters and shopkeepers on board also helped.

    Go and read these articles for yourself.

    The fifty two year old Captain has been placed on house arrest. He was skylarking about and went too close to the rocks.. There were over 4,000 passengers on board that ship. Nearly double that of the Titanic.

    Mass hysteria does not equal feminism. The cool headed people like that purser were the ones that pitched in and helped everyone.

    The crew were frightened panicked and ran off because they did not know what to do.

    “There was no crew member really taking charge,” says Moore a passenger . “There were so many mixed messages”

    Utter confusion and chaos. Shakes head.

     
  17. Will S.

    January 17, 2012 at 9:12 pm

    I hope the survivors sue the company into bankruptcy.

     
  18. Svar

    January 18, 2012 at 11:06 am

    “If the effects of feminism are not evident during those times, then feminism does not exist at all.”

    Feminism is an ideology. It’s not found in Nature. Just like with all other forms of equality, it does not exist unless propped up artificially by the state.

    “I don’t see how societal tendencies would not be evident when there is panic. At those times the veneer of propriety is gone and people act in an unconstrained manner.”

    Just think about it. When the veneer of “civilization” (let’s call Amerika a civilization for these intents and purposes, even though it’s nothing but an anarcho-tyranny and the “culture” is made to pander to the LCD) and people are left to their base nature, all societal indoctrination goes out the window. That’s how choirboys turn into savages.

     
  19. CL

    January 18, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Yeah, it’s sad, but that’s ekwalitee at it’s finest.

    Feminism is an ideology. It’s not found in Nature. Just like with all other forms of equality, it does not exist unless propped up artificially by the state.

    You appear to be contradicting yourself, Svar.

     
  20. Kathy

    January 18, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    “Feminism is an ideology. It’s not found in Nature. Just like with all other forms of equality, it does not exist unless propped up artificially by the state.”

    I agree, Svar.

    “Just think about it. When the veneer of “civilization” (let’s call Amerika a civilization for these intents and purposes, even though it’s nothing but an anarcho-tyranny and the “culture” is made to pander to the LCD) and people are left to their base nature, all societal indoctrination goes out the window. That’s how choirboys turn into savages”

    Bingo, Svar!

     
  21. Kathy

    January 18, 2012 at 6:43 pm

    A good example of the choirboys turning into savages is found in the novel “Lord Of The Flies” by William Golding, Svar.

    Golding implies that the instinct of savagery is far more primal and fundamental to the human psyche than the instinct of civilization. Golding sees moral behavior, in many cases, as something that civilization forces upon the individual rather than a natural expression of human individuality. When left to their own devices, Golding implies, people naturally revert to cruelty, savagery, and barbarism.

     
  22. Svar

    January 18, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    “You appear to be contradicting yourself, Svar.”

    Explain how so. Those two statements are not contradictory. If equality doesn’t exist in Nature, that doesn’t mean it can be implemented artificially (to ill-effect as we can all see). I do not see how that statement contradicts with “Ekwalitee at it’s finest”. But apparently, you do.

    I really, really want to see you explain this.

     
  23. CL

    January 18, 2012 at 7:30 pm

    @ Svar

    In your first comment, you appeared to be agreeing that this was a result of feminism, as the linked articles suggest. In your second, you seemed to say that this was simply people reverting to their base nature and had nothing to do with feminism.

    So which is it?

     
  24. 7man

    January 18, 2012 at 7:42 pm

    Although incompetence was likely the cause of the damamge to the ship, it was the effect of feminism that greatly contributed to the chaos as the ship was sinking.

    Men simply have been taught that women can fend for themselves as equals in times of crisis. Women also have been claiming this in everyday life, but when a crisis happens they still expect men to sacrifice. What a shock when this does not happen because the social bargain has been abolished.

     
  25. Kathy

    January 18, 2012 at 7:55 pm

    “Although incompetence was likely the cause of the damamge to the ship, it was the effect of feminism that greatly contributed to the chaos as the ship was sinking.” Um, no it was not

    It was due to lack of leadership. Lack of training and also many of the crew members were of a different nationality. Hence messages over the public address system were in 8 languages. People had no idea what to do and with the lack of leadership there was chaos and confusion.

    I mean, what Captain jumps his ship and leaves the passengers to flounder. This man arrogant reckless Italian 52 years old, should have known better. Never informed the passengers that he had hit a rock until forty minutes after it had happened..The lights went out.. No one to lead..

    Many of the crew came from places like Peru Asia etc where feminism does not have a foothold..

    Nice try but no cigar.

     
  26. Svar

    January 18, 2012 at 7:57 pm

    “In your first comment, you appeared to be agreeing that this was a result of feminism, as the linked articles suggest. In your second, you seemed to say that this was simply people reverting to their base nature and had nothing to do with feminism.

    So which is it?”

    In my second statement, I was disagreeing with 7man’s assertion that feminism can exist in a state where the veneer of civilization has been lifted since feminism is an indoctrinated “value”. Feminism is an artificial ideology and therefore does not exist in nature. This had nothing to do with my first statement, but I guess if nitpicking is your thing…. What really matters is whether or not my second statement was untrue. Was it?

    Plus, the other articles on the incident point to mass hysteria and panic being the reason, as Kathy and Fidelbogen have pointed out.

     
  27. Kathy

    January 18, 2012 at 8:00 pm

    You are also ignoring the fact that many men did in fact try and help. These were mainly the cooks and waiters, according to statements from passengers.. Also the Australian guy that I mentioned.

    Sometimes people have rigid mindsets about certain situations. Even when confronted with the obvious evidence they still choose not to believe.

    Ah, c’est la vie.. ;)

     
  28. 7man

    January 18, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    Svar, I am confused. Your last comment was far from clear to me.

    I did not assert “that feminism can exist in a state where the veneer of civilization has been lifted since feminism is an indoctrinated ‘value’.” I was using sarcasm to reveal incompatible beliefs and revealing the absurdityof the necessary conclusion.

    It is the duty of the ship crew to do their jobs. The ship’s officers abandoned their duties due to the behavior feminism had ingrained in them.

     
  29. CL

    January 18, 2012 at 8:44 pm

    @ Svar

    You didn’t answer the question – were you or were you not agreeing with the idea of this post – i.e. that feminism is to blame for men not acting like they used to? You seemed to be at first, but then you said the opposite – i.e. that this wasn’t possible because it is an indoctrinated value, thus it falls away as soon as disaster ensues. The question remains, why did that not happen when chivalry was the indoctrinated value?

     
  30. Svar

    January 18, 2012 at 9:21 pm

    @ 7man

    So you were being sarcastic when you made this statement: ““If the effects of feminism are not evident during those times, then feminism does not exist at all.””?

    O-K. Good to know.

    Btw, I read the articles on the incident. Fidelbogen and Kathy are right; this situation can’t be explained by feminism but by poor training of the crew. Where feminism comes in, is the articles written by feminist journalists slamming the crewmen for not being chivalrous.

    @ CL

    “You didn’t answer the question – were you or were you not agreeing with the idea of this post – i.e. that feminism is to blame for men not acting like they used to?”

    Nuance, plz. Yes, I was agreeing with the post, that men don’t act like they used to because of feminism(it’s pretty obvious, duh, neither men nor women act like they used to because of feminism). My second statement was a response, not to the post, but to 7man’s assertion, which apparently was sarcastic. Regardless of all this semantics bullshit that you insist on dragging us through, is my statement that feminism is an imposed ideology, not something that occurs naturally, any less true?

    Less emphasis on semantics and other useless shit that no one cares about and more emphasis on the truth, mkay? Let me break down my views for you so you don’t get confused again:

    1. Feminism has caused men(and women) to act differently.
    2. Feminism is an ideology that does not occur in nature. It’s artificial and has to be implemented by force.

    Does that clear that up for you? It doesn’t get any more simpler than this.

    “The question remains, why did that not happen when chivalry was the indoctrinated value?”

    That is a completely new question.

     
  31. Kathy

    January 18, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    “It is the duty of the ship crew to do their jobs. The ship’s officers abandoned their duties due to the behavior feminism had ingrained in them.”

    Oh dear..I will try one more time.

    The crew had not been trained in emergency proceedures. Heck according to one of the latest reports that I read they were not even up to being seamen. Eye witnesses support the view that there was confusion and chaos, due to lack of training, leadership and miscommunication. Many crew never even spoke the same language. They panicked. A big responsibility when the passengers are looking to you for guidance and you know diddly squat about emergency proceedures. As one couple said there was no life boat drill as there should have been when they boarded the ship in France..

    The Captain who should have lead the crew abandoned ship, not because of feminism, but because he broke the law and was shit scared. Going in close to shore to show off to some Admiral was foolish and reckless. Many of the passengers were men as well as women. The Captain was an arse pure and simple.

    Unfortunately yours is just (unsubstaniated ) opinion.. The crew (and I have already said this sigh..) were made up of many different nationalities.. Mostly from countries where feminism did not have a foothold.

    In any event even an Aussie guy pitched in to help.

    Why did the cooks the waiters and bartenders stay behind to help if feminism was ingrained in them?

    Does not make any sense does it?

    In any case I prefer to believe the accounts of passengers on board that ship, who saw what was happening with their own eyes.

    Finally, this from officials.

    “It seems from all the indications that the vast majority of the crew were the equivalent of hotel staff and not sufficiently trained in seamanship skills,” said John Dalby, chief executive with specialists Marine Risk Management (MRM).

    When a loud bang was heard as passengers sat down to dinner on Friday night and the multi-storey super-liner began to list heavily, panic erupted and a babble of different languages among the multinational passengers and crew made the rescue more difficult.

    “There was total confusion and then mounting panic as the ship tipped further on to its side,” said Mario Pellegrini, the deputy mayor of Giglio, who went out on a small boat to offer advice on the best way to get people on to the island.

    “I found no officers on board, not only the captain but also no officers, and the rest of the personnel were all Asian and spoke no Italian and also very little English,” he said.

    “They were very willing to help but also very agitated. It was very disorganised and left me with an awful impression.”

     
  32. Svar

    January 18, 2012 at 9:35 pm

    Kathy, just give up. Apparently facts(or the truth) don’t matter as much in these kinds of debates. Just what you feel and can think up on the spot.

     
  33. Will S.

    January 18, 2012 at 9:48 pm

    @ Kathy: I agree, with you, and Fidelbogen, that the cause of the disaster itself wasn’t feminism.

    Now, how some men reacted, the disaster having happened and people trying to get away, is the fruit of the death of chivalry – a code which is less followed today, if not dead altogether, due to feminist attacks on it.

    And then how certain journalists with axes to grind reacted, is oh-so-typical; they claim they want equality, but when push comes to shove, they want to have their cake and eat it too; equality when it suits them; male sacrifice when it doesn’t…

    But of course you didn’t say anything otherwise.

    So no argument from me with anything you’ve said here. :)

     
  34. 7man

    January 18, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    To believe that it the lack of training is the primary cause of what transpired, I would have to disbelieve in 5 significant factors.
    masculine nature
    apprenticeship
    corporate concern for assets
    regulation
    insurance companies protecting their interests

     
  35. Will S.

    January 18, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    And many companies have been known to cut corners, hire unqualified people, not properly train people, etc., whenever they can get away with it. I’ve worked for companies that have tossed aside the health and safety book whenever it suited their purposes. I’ve worked in the oilpatch where guys will work 72 hours in a row, hopped up on crystal meth, then the companies fudge the books afterwards to hide it. None of such tendencies should be surprising, when we encounter them. Corporate incompetence / malevolence happens. We who are Christians, know we’re all sinners, so that shouldn’t surprise us, in the least…

     
  36. Svar

    January 18, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    @ 7man: And you think that feminism was enough to override all of those concerns? Great logic. Your interpretation of the events is quite interesting, especially in the face of the articles, which had quotes by actual passengers(were you there? They were), was a lack of training.

     
  37. Will S.

    January 18, 2012 at 10:56 pm

    I tend to go with Occam’s Razor, because the simplest explanation usually is the best one, 99.99+% of the time…

     
  38. CL

    January 18, 2012 at 11:10 pm

    At the risk of being accused of getting caught in “semantics” again, the “simplest explanation is best” when citing Occam’s Razor is a common misunderstanding of the concept.

    “One should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything.”

    Simple explanations don’t explain everything – it can get quite complex and many different factors may have to be taken into account. The point is to “shave off” the ones that are immaterial or unnecessary.

     
  39. Will S.

    January 18, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    (And ‘best’ usually means ‘right’, in such cases.)

     
  40. Will S.

    January 18, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    Indeed, CL, my point is just that; no need to invoke extra reasons for a given situation, when less can suffice.

     
  41. Svar

    January 18, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    “At the risk of being accused of getting caught in “semantics” again”

    It’s okay, I’ll let this one slide.

     
  42. Will S.

    January 18, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    {Snort}

     
  43. Fidelbogen

    January 18, 2012 at 11:59 pm

    I don’t see how societal tendencies would not be evident when there is panic. At those times the veneer of propriety is gone and people act in an unconstrained manner. If the effects of feminism are not evident during those times, then feminism does not exist at all. “

    I’m pretty sure that feminism does exist. The other name for feminism is ‘female supremacism’, which exists beyond a doubt.

    But I doubt it sheds much light to scan that tiny microcosm for signs of “feminism”. It seems like a pointless exercise. At best, we can postulate an indirect feminist influence as manifested in the breakdown of decorum and order, but not much more. Whether “feminism” was present on that ship in a concrete way, is a separate question.

     
  44. Will S.

    January 19, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Well said, Fidelbogen. Agree, completely.

     
  45. 7man

    January 19, 2012 at 7:48 am

    Svar, there are two parts to this story. The incompetent part and the part where feminism had an effect. The cause of the disaster was incompetence which lack of training may have had a part. The chaos during abandoning ship is the part were feminism was likely revealed.

    There were no passengers on the bridge during the time the ship was initially damaged, so how could there be any quotes? After that there was denial and coverup and a failure to do duty. These are not things that are affected by training, as this is human failing.

    Svar, my point was that this thing should NOT be entirely blamed on lack of training. That does not mean the entire thing can be blamed on feminism either. Please use basic logic. All I am saying is that it is absurd to think that the societal training of feminism was not evident in so many men saving themselves before helping women and children.

    I do not believe that men are naturally that selfish unless there is something subversive of the general historical order of things going on.

    Is it hard to believe that way people have been indoctrinated to think (feminism) would have some impact and be evident in some way in a time of chaos and panic? This does not mean that it was the ONLY reason.

     
  46. 7man

    January 19, 2012 at 8:05 am

    I guess I don’t understand why this is has become such a big deal.

    Will said in the original post: “Chivalry is dead; feminism killed it.”

    Kathy stated in her first comment: “I believe what happened had nothing to do with feminism”

    I just happen to disagree that feminism had NOTHING to do with it, (but neither am I saying that feminism should be blamed for everything). Also I disagree that a lack of training was the sole reason things transpired as they did.

     
  47. Will S.

    January 19, 2012 at 8:23 am

    Perhaps I misunderstood, but I took what Kathy said in her first comment, to refer to the initial accident itself; not how, in panicked response, some men put saving themselves – a natural instinct, of course; chivalry being a learned behaviour – ahead of saving others. Perhaps I misunderstood. Or perhaps Kathy could have been a bit clearer in her wording, but I thought I understood fairly clearly anyway what she meant from the context of the rest of her comment.

    I think we’re all on the same page here. Hopefully we can move on, now…

     
  48. Kathy

    January 19, 2012 at 8:29 am

    A lack of leadership had a whole lot to do with it as well.. Smacks forehead in frustration!!

    Look… a Captain is needed in a marriage right..???

    How the hell do you think that a ship could function if the Captain had gone AWOL.??

    Seriously? Without a leader you are stuffed!.

    Feminism is insidious and has done much damage.

    I agree with Will when he says:
    “Chivalry is dead; feminism killed it.”

    However.. You are way off the mark in this instance 7man.

     
  49. 7man

    January 19, 2012 at 8:35 am

    Sure, we can move on. Patriactionary was intended as a place where respectful disagreements and exploration of issues would be embraced. I don’t have any interest in compromising my beliefs and common sense for anyone, whether man or woman, whether my friend or not, whether my woman or not. I will not appease and play “nice” so others do not FEEL bad.

    The articles linked discussed what transpired AFTER the ship was already damaged and the explored the effect of feminism during the time the crew and passengers abandoned ship. I happen to believe that the effects of feminism were evident and are revealed in times of crisis. I will not compromise my position.

     
  50. CL

    January 19, 2012 at 8:40 am

    Bad faith arguments are not meaningful. 7man’s position is not extreme and takes various factors into account, not laying the blame on a single factor. It is not “way off the mark” but simply acknowledging various influences that have an effect.

     
  51. 7man

    January 19, 2012 at 8:42 am

    @Kathy
    A lack of leadership had a whole lot to do with it as well..”

    Of course! And do you believe that the indoctrination of people to feminism has nothing to do with this?

    I will joint you in this act: “Smacks forehead in frustration!!”

    “However.. You are way off the mark in this instance 7man.”

    Kathy, please plainly explain where I am “off the mark.”

     
  52. Kathy

    January 19, 2012 at 8:42 am

    “I happen to believe that the effects of feminism were evident and are revealed in times of crisis. I will not compromise my position”

    Good! Thankyou for finally revealing that you have no proof whatsoever for your espoused opinions.

     
  53. Kathy

    January 19, 2012 at 8:47 am

    “Bad faith arguments are not meaningful. 7man’s position is not extreme and takes various factors into account, not laying the blame on a single factor. It is not “way off the mark” but simply acknowledging various influences that have an effect.”

    Give it a rest CL. Your White Knighting is becoming rather tedious. Lol..

    7man can speak for himself. ;)

     
  54. CL

    January 19, 2012 at 8:48 am

    If I tell Kathy to fuck off, will I get banned like Master Po?

     
  55. 7man

    January 19, 2012 at 8:50 am

    @Kathy,

    An opinion is based on observation and common sense. I don’t need proof to have an opinion, but if the evidence negated my opinion, then I would reevaluate my opinion.

    Since I have worked in large organizations and had operational training, observed and have been part of teams evaluating accidents, I have formed my beliefs based on that. Now if your training and experience is more extensive than mine, please reveal it so I can learn from you.

     
  56. Kathy

    January 19, 2012 at 8:52 am

    Oh poor Diddums… If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen :D

     
  57. CL

    January 19, 2012 at 8:54 am

    It was meant to be sort of a Zen Koan. Imagine it in a Japanese accent.

     
  58. Will S.

    January 19, 2012 at 8:56 am

    Master Po didn’t get banned for telling anyone to fuck off. He got banned for being an annoying, tiresome bore; to name one of the specific reasons in his case, because he wouldn’t stop trying to turn discussions around to his hobbyhorse, that the Reformation is the fount of all ill in the world.

     
  59. 7man

    January 19, 2012 at 8:57 am

    I don’t feel any heat.

     
  60. Kathy

    January 19, 2012 at 8:59 am

    “Since I have worked in large organizations and had operational training, observed and have been part of teams evaluating accidents, I have formed my beliefs based on that. Now if your training and experience is more extensive than mine, please reveal it so I can learn from you.”

    Um sorry, geeky Engineers just don’t cut it!.

    I have worked closely with people in a personnel oriented environment.. Have been involved in people management, conflict resolution and hiring and firing of staff.

    Accidents? Surely you jest.?

     
  61. Kathy

    January 19, 2012 at 9:03 am

    “I don’t feel any heat”

    Is your name CL? :D It was obvious that I was responding to her … (or maybe not.. sigh)

     
  62. Svar

    January 19, 2012 at 9:14 am

    “If I tell Kathy to fuck off, will I get banned like Master Po?”

    Master Po was banned because he pissed off me, Will, and Matthew. Defending him isn’t doing you any favors. I like how you’re bringing up a situation on which you have no knowledge of, but it’s not like you’ve done that before, huh?

     
  63. 7man

    January 19, 2012 at 9:16 am

    @Kathy

    I bow to your vast experience, since geeky engineers do not work with people. The accidents and evaluations must have been a figment of my imagination. It just seemed so real when I was writing reports and considering both the physical factors and the human factors that contributed to the situation.

    It has been my experience (as revelaed in the SW debacle) that women don’t de-escalate disagreements if they would have to admit to overstating a position. Women will emotionally escalate, shame, and denigrate rather than taking to simple path of admitting they were wrong. Their self-worth is so dependant on being right that they cannot see another alternative. This in itself reveals the extent of feminism among Christian/Catholic women. They are empowered!

    That last bit may also be an opinion with no proof, but it seems to me that women form opinions lacking factual basis or proof. It always amazes me that women attack men’s opinions without having proof of their opinion (which are primarily supported by feelings).

     
  64. Svar

    January 19, 2012 at 9:16 am

    “Since I have worked in large organizations and had operational training, observed and have been part of teams evaluating accidents, I have formed my beliefs based on that. Now if your training and experience is more extensive than mine, please reveal it so I can learn from you.”

    She knows how to read an article.

     
  65. Svar

    January 19, 2012 at 9:18 am

    “Patriactionary was intended as a place where respectful disagreements and exploration of issues would be embraced”

    Actually, Patriactionary was Matthew’s idea. He created it because he wanted to see what Will and I have to say. You just happened to end up on the site.

     
  66. Svar

    January 19, 2012 at 9:20 am

    “I guess I don’t understand why this is has become such a big deal.”

    You don’t? Well, we can make this less of a deal if you were to say….. calm down, calm your woman down, and fuck off for while? (hey Will am I going to get banned for saying that?)

     
  67. Will S.

    January 19, 2012 at 9:24 am

    :)

     
  68. Svar

    January 19, 2012 at 9:24 am

    I also have noticed that you’ve moved to a more nuanced position, 7man. Shifting the goal posts, much?

     
  69. Kathy

    January 19, 2012 at 9:25 am

    “Women will emotionally escalate, shame, and denigrate rather than taking to simple path of admitting they were wrong”

    Seems like it has been the other way around now doesn’t it.

    You provide no links nor any evidence and you are crushed because your opinions are dismissed?

    Bwwwhhhaaaaaaa!. You are killing me.. :D

     
  70. 7man

    January 19, 2012 at 9:30 am

    Svar,
    Rest assured I have my woman well in hand and can easily deal with her when she gets out of hand. I also refuse to WK for other women and will not back down from my opinions to avoid hurting the feelings of women not belonging to me. I realise that other men do not practice this.

     
  71. 7man

    January 19, 2012 at 9:34 am

    Kathy,

    Please provide some proof or evidence to support your statement that “I believe what happened had nothing to do with feminism”

    Why do you beleve that the impact of feminsim is not revealed, even in a minor way, in times of crisis?

     
  72. Kathy

    January 19, 2012 at 9:37 am

    “Rest assured I have my woman well in hand and can easily deal with her when she gets out of hand”

    In a pigs eye! She was ripe for the picking. You lucked out. Pure and simple.

    She has allowed herself to be led by you. Don’t pat yourself on the back quite so fast.

    Your observations about women and what turns them on leave me cold.

    Get over yourself.

    One swallow does not make a Summer.

     
  73. Svar

    January 19, 2012 at 9:38 am

    “Rest assured I have my woman well in hand and can easily deal with her when she gets out of hand.”

    Good. But just in case, I’m just going to give you a heads up, if she says anything stupid from this point on, moohammer.

    “I also refuse to WK for other women and will not back down from my opinions to avoid hurting the feelings of women not belonging to me.”

    I assume you are talkig about Kathy. Kathy, are your feelings hurt by 7man’s opinions? Regardless, what happened on the ship is not subject to opinion, but fact. Opinions don’t matter in this case.

    “I realise that other men do not practice this.”

    Ahh…. Right now you are referring to Will and I. Well, we would back you up, except for the fact that you’re arguing like a woman.

    Will, @ Svar: If 7Man was indeed referring to me, he’s wrong, as when I have disagreed with Kathy, I’ve certainly told her so.

     
  74. Svar

    January 19, 2012 at 9:41 am

    No more comments on this thread. Except by Will, Matthew, or me.

     
  75. Will S.

    January 19, 2012 at 9:43 am

    Yes, Svar, why don’t we close it? I’ve never done that before, I’ll see if I can figure out how. Or if you know how, you can try it.

    *Update: Done. First time for everything, I guess…

     
  76. 7man

    January 19, 2012 at 9:44 am

    “if she says anything stupid from this point on, moohammer.”

    Please point out where this has happened and I will take appropriate action.

    Svar: No, it’s okay, we’ll take appropriate action. Plus, you’re not me, Will, or Matthew.

    Svar: Oh and btw, Will and I look forward to the article over at Curmudgeon Loner about this little situation we had.

    7man: Sorry, I missed the memo about someone dying and leaving you in charge.

    Svar: LOL. Will, Matthew, and I are in charge. Too bad you missed that memo, but it was established when we first came up with the idea for the site, hahaha. Matthew banned Master Po. He didn’t consult you or your groupie, because we don’t have to. You see how this works? It’s rather simple. Matthew, Will, and I can do whatever the fuck we want, while you can’t.

     
 
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